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Post by zxmustang on Jul 5, 2020 17:05:28 GMT
Here you are smart guy. See the difference between the two pictures. Same game, higher resolution on the second one. GTAV 1920x1200 using the 5500m, vs 2560x1600 using the eGPU 2080 super. See how the GPU is utilized on both and you can see the CPU is MUCH higher on the egpu pic than the 5500m pic. And look at the temps. Its actually higher while using the egpu and its still sitting on its boost clock. It doesnt budge. The 5500m pic was taken about 15 minutes into the game. The other pic was taken at over an hour. So you can see there is a power bottleneck here, not thermal. Because you can CLEARLY SEE that the CPU is at a higher temp but still sitting at boost (4107) compared to the other where its lower temp but throttled well below base clock. So I ask you, what were you saying again about letting the people who understand, handle this?? You seem to be running down the wrong path. Throttling back the CPU is doing nothing. The GPU is the problem, and its not thermals. Its power. There is not enough to go around. The CPU must throttle back to keep the GPU running and even then the GPU throttles back as well. This is a clear power limit problem. Attachments:
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Post by kingtuttut on Jul 7, 2020 15:12:19 GMT
I returned my 5500M 4GB because it throttled insanely much. I've had the 5600M for about a week and it's also going back. The throttling isn't as severe but it's there and it drives me crazy that a laptop at this price point can't handle its internals. I'm getting a Dell XPS 17 instead... MacBooks are dead when it comes to Windows and bootcamp.
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Post by zxmustang on Jul 7, 2020 17:57:27 GMT
I returned my 5500M 4GB because it throttled insanely much. I've had the 5600M for about a week and it's also going back. The throttling isn't as severe but it's there and it drives me crazy that a laptop at this price point can't handle its internals. I'm getting a Dell XPS 17 instead... MacBooks are dead when it comes to Windows and bootcamp. You are correct. There needs to be a bios update for the GPUs to stop them from going down in flames... But its not all wine and roses on the PC/windows side. I am returning my MSI GS75 because that also throttles itself into the mud and the CPU sits at 96c even when I was GPU bound and only using it 20% or so.
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Post by goldmaster11 on Jul 8, 2020 2:37:46 GMT
To everyone who comes by this thread with a brand new 16" MBP with Windows installed and encounters this same thing, document hard evidence of the throttling prior to your 14-day return window. Let Apple know this issue, or it only continue to remain a frustration for current and future Boot Camp. There is still hope because Intel-based Macs are receiving software updates for years to come. Not only should you return it, but you should also convince Apple that this issue is real with irrefutable evidence.
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Post by goldmaster11 on Jul 8, 2020 4:40:43 GMT
There is severe power throttling in the game Cold Waters. This is a game that advertises being able to run on low-end PCs and those that run on Windows XP using DirectX 9. It doesn't only occur with this mod. It has also occurred with the More Playable Subs mod, which doesn't graphically change anything compared to the vanilla game.
This game used to run for several hours without throttling on my old 2018 MacBook Pro with the 560X, which I exchanged for the Vega 20. Even the new Vega 20 did not show problems compared to the 560X when it was brand new. This game has been on version 1.15g before I even had a new MBP, and this game hasn't been officially updated in more than a year.
Now I will have severe power throttling even at bare minimum settings at 720p even though I've got CPU fixes and the GPU is constantly running at high clocks according to MSI Afterburner. Time compression gets severely affected, dropping FPS to single digits when using it. I used to use time compression without issues when the throttling occurred. It probably happens somewhere later in the video.
CPU is limited to 15W TDP via QuickCPU.
If I have Turbo Boost enabled, the CPU will eventually bring down the clock frequency to 800MHz, and I'll have the constant stuttering that is a problem with Windows games in general on this MBP. Even in tutorials and with 720p minimum graphics settings and turbo boost on, there is still severe throttling.
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Post by neimos on Jul 8, 2020 22:17:02 GMT
There is severe power throttling in the game Cold Waters. This is a game that advertises being able to run on low-end PCs and those that run on Windows XP using DirectX 9. It doesn't only occur with this mod. It has also occurred with the More Playable Subs mod, which doesn't graphically change anything compared to the vanilla game. This game used to run for several hours without throttling on my old 2018 MacBook Pro with the 560X, which I exchanged for the Vega 20. Even the new Vega 20 did not show problems compared to the 560X when it was brand new. This game has been on version 1.15g before I even had a new MBP, and this game hasn't been officially updated in more than a year. Now I will have severe power throttling even at bare minimum settings at 720p even though I've got CPU fixes and the GPU is constantly running at high clocks according to MSI Afterburner. Time compression gets severely affected, dropping FPS to single digits when using it. I used to use time compression without issues when the throttling occurred. It probably happens somewhere later in the video. CPU is limited to 15W TDP via QuickCPU. If I have Turbo Boost enabled, the CPU will eventually bring down the clock frequency to 800MHz, and I'll have the constant stuttering that is a problem with Windows games in general on this MBP. Even in tutorials and with 720p minimum graphics settings and turbo boost on, there is still severe throttling. I have read your message about the keyboard change. I don't know where you are but this is something that you should fight for. I had 2017 Macbook pro and I have got 1 time keyboard change. 1 year after I had the stuck keys again and told them about it. They wanted to change it and I said no. It is not going in for a change and I would like to return this. There is a clear problem here and changing keyboard does not solve it. The genius insisted that it is not something that they can do. I told him that I do not want to change it under the applecare warranty. I want it to be changed under the consumer law, please go ask your supervisor. He went inside and came back 5 minutes later. He said ok I have good news. You can return the items (Bose headset) with the original price and we can return the money in a gift card or your credit card.... Happy ending right ? Not really, hence I am here with 16 inch throttling problems. So do not let them change your keyboard one more time. This happened in the UK btw.
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Post by goldmaster11 on Jul 9, 2020 1:13:02 GMT
Hopefully, this is enough to convince them. This happened within 5-10 minutes with Turbo Boost disabled and fans ramped up as the mission began.
I hit 800MHz throttling this time.
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Post by zxmustang on Jul 9, 2020 21:47:18 GMT
Yeah on mine I forgot to turn the macs fan control software to full blast, and my CPU did the same. On the flip side with my eGPU installed, I was able to play Shadow of the Tomb Raider for two hours last night and my CPU held to its 4107 boost clock the whole time. Even though it was sitting at 79c for the majority. This is not a thermal issue, its power.
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Post by achandlerwhite on Jul 13, 2020 22:13:25 GMT
I think it is thermal in nature. Why would power work OK for 20 mins before the FPS drops then suddenly not work? Hint: it's probably the VRMs building up heat over time and compromising the system's ability to supply power / triggering bdprochot. Doesn't seem you can see the VRM temps in any monitoring software.
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Post by goldmaster11 on Jul 14, 2020 3:35:36 GMT
Did anyone try out putting thermal pads in the VRMs like u/Randomhhkid did on Reddit?
I did extensive testing on the same game on macOS, and it doesn't throttle as aggressively as it does in Windows. The processor levels out at 2GHz most of the time at around 65-75 degrees Celsius. The worst I got was 1.2GHz on max core frequency according to Intel Power Gadget. However, even then, time compression was still way smoother than it was on Windows.
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Post by hunter259 on Jul 14, 2020 18:43:36 GMT
This is 100% a thermal throttle but I am not sure as to why anything is throttling. I used a Fluke IR camera and looked at the components under load and only the GPU memory gets above 70c. That area of the board is the source of the throttle but it's hard to tell what exactly is throttling so I just padded all of it. Clocks are now 1GHz+ 95% of the time with small dips into the 900 MHz range. Bottom gets hot under load so you don't want to be doing anything with your legs directly on the center but the performance improvements are well worth it.
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Post by achandlerwhite on Jul 24, 2020 16:44:39 GMT
Interesting picture hunter259. Do you think you can get a bigger picture of the IR image? Also are you sure the hotspot is the video RAM? The bright areas on your IR camera look to be the components to the right of the video ram according to this image from the IFIXIT teardown (they identify the video ram as the area in green): Image from here: www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook+Pro+16-Inch+2019+Teardown/128106
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Post by hunter259 on Jul 24, 2020 17:28:35 GMT
Interesting picture hunter259. Do you think you can get a bigger picture of the IR image? Also are you sure the hotspot is the video RAM? The bright areas on your IR camera look to be the components to the right of the video ram according to this image from the IFIXIT teardown (they identify the video ram as the area in green): Image from here: www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook+Pro+16-Inch+2019+Teardown/128106I've already given it back but you can tell just by feeling with your hand that it has the highest heat output. I went by component by component and it was the hottest. I'm worried that the last set are the two chips that sit directly under the heatpipe.
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Post by Francesco on Jul 25, 2020 12:03:02 GMT
maybe using MorePowerTools to lower GPU Mem frequency could help?
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Post by goldmaster11 on Aug 5, 2020 0:08:53 GMT
I did what I could on phone to request for a consumer law refund in the US.
My best option I could negotiate was to take a 2.4/64GB/5600M/1TB MBP 16” based on the value I paid. I’ll be able to let you know how it goes for me.
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