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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2020 13:56:11 GMT
I've solved the thermal throttling issue with my MBP 2019 16" 5500m 4gb.
The cause is that when the temperature of the GPU or CPU exceed 80c the VRM will kick in and reduce the power available to the system. The only way to prevent this is to ensure the system doesn't hit this temp.
I replaced the stock thermal paste with Kyronaut's thermal compound. This reduced temps by close to 10c under load. I didn't opt for liquid metal as I don't want to run the risk of damaging the machine and the difference is pretty small. After that I added thermal pads so the heatsink is in contact with the bottom casing. This diffuses a lot of heat, but don't game with the thing on your lap.
I use Throttlestop and set the multiplier to 30. This caps the boost to 3 GHZ. This is essential as it will ramp up to 4.1ghz on a whim and the temps get insane, near 100c. You don't need to change anything else, and you could probably get close to 3.5 GHZ without throttling.
With this configuration the GPU never throttles and maintains 1200-1450 mhz throughout, could probably overclock it to 1600 if desired with MorePowerTool if you dial back the CPU clock. Temperatures with 8 cores at 3 GHZ hover around 75c, but this is dependent on room temperature. I also prop the laptop up to allow heat to diffuse from the thermal pads, this makes a huge difference in temps.
Without these modifications this laptop will always throttle. I had to run the GPU at -20% capacity (42w) and disable turbo on the CPU entirely (2.3 ghz). Overall these mods result in +25%-+50% performance under load as the VRM goes overboard in throttling. Under normal use the fans never turn on too as the thermal improvement is significant with the paste alone.
I also set the fans to 100% as you'll need it under load. A cooling base would have a huge impact as the thermal pads diffuse heat through the base, I'd expect another -10c from that.
Hope this helps someone, this was quite a PITA. This machine is powerful and I can play some games (Civ IV) at 4k with maxed settings.
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Post by 2tlavenue on May 24, 2020 18:15:16 GMT
I've solved the thermal throttling issue with my MBP 2019 16" 5500m 4gb. The cause is that when the temperature of the GPU or CPU exceed 80c the VRM will kick in and reduce the power available to the system. The only way to prevent this is to ensure the system doesn't hit this temp. I replaced the stock thermal paste with Kyronaut's thermal compound. This reduced temps by close to 10c under load. I didn't opt for liquid metal as I don't want to run the risk of damaging the machine and the difference is pretty small. After that I added thermal pads so the heatsink is in contact with the bottom casing. This diffuses a lot of heat, but don't game with the thing on your lap. I use Throttlestop and set the multiplier to 30. This caps the boost to 3 GHZ. This is essential as it will ramp up to 4.1ghz on a whim and the temps get insane, near 100c. You don't need to change anything else, and you could probably get close to 3.5 GHZ without throttling. With this configuration the GPU never throttles and maintains 1200-1450 mhz throughout, could probably overclock it to 1600 if desired with MorePowerTool if you dial back the CPU clock. Temperatures with 8 cores at 3 GHZ hover around 75c, but this is dependent on room temperature. I also prop the laptop up to allow heat to diffuse from the thermal pads, this makes a huge difference in temps. Without these modifications this laptop will always throttle. I had to run the GPU at -20% capacity (42w) and disable turbo on the CPU entirely (2.3 ghz). Overall these mods result in +25%-+50% performance under load as the VRM goes overboard in throttling. Under normal use the fans never turn on too as the thermal improvement is significant with the paste alone. I also set the fans to 100% as you'll need it under load. A cooling base would have a huge impact as the thermal pads diffuse heat through the base, I'd expect another -10c from that. Hope this helps someone, this was quite a PITA. This machine is powerful and I can play some games (Civ IV) at 4k with maxed settings. That's interesting because these guys have the same GPU as yours and do not have GPU throttling hitting +80°C : / I think that bad thermal paste application isn't the only reason for this problem, if it was this guy would be throttling too when hitting +80C° right ? Could this be because of a different GPU BIOS ? Are you using April drivers or do you have the black screen issue ? I also have to limit my GPU to 42W and lower the graphics on AC Odissey to avoid the 1200MHz clock if I don't want my GPU temp to go crazy +86°C ... I'm not confortable opening my MBP to change thermal paste, but will find someone that knows how to do it properly ! Did you take a picture of the bad thermal paste application on your MBP ? Could be interesting sending it to Apple. Thank you for your help  (I have the 5500M 8gb but as you can see on my "Macbook Pro 16" GPU temp rising at +85°, thermal paste?" post, the problems are the same) |
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2020 20:52:49 GMT
I've solved the thermal throttling issue with my MBP 2019 16" 5500m 4gb. The cause is that when the temperature of the GPU or CPU exceed 80c the VRM will kick in and reduce the power available to the system. The only way to prevent this is to ensure the system doesn't hit this temp. I replaced the stock thermal paste with Kyronaut's thermal compound. This reduced temps by close to 10c under load. I didn't opt for liquid metal as I don't want to run the risk of damaging the machine and the difference is pretty small. After that I added thermal pads so the heatsink is in contact with the bottom casing. This diffuses a lot of heat, but don't game with the thing on your lap. I use Throttlestop and set the multiplier to 30. This caps the boost to 3 GHZ. This is essential as it will ramp up to 4.1ghz on a whim and the temps get insane, near 100c. You don't need to change anything else, and you could probably get close to 3.5 GHZ without throttling. With this configuration the GPU never throttles and maintains 1200-1450 mhz throughout, could probably overclock it to 1600 if desired with MorePowerTool if you dial back the CPU clock. Temperatures with 8 cores at 3 GHZ hover around 75c, but this is dependent on room temperature. I also prop the laptop up to allow heat to diffuse from the thermal pads, this makes a huge difference in temps. Without these modifications this laptop will always throttle. I had to run the GPU at -20% capacity (42w) and disable turbo on the CPU entirely (2.3 ghz). Overall these mods result in +25%-+50% performance under load as the VRM goes overboard in throttling. Under normal use the fans never turn on too as the thermal improvement is significant with the paste alone. I also set the fans to 100% as you'll need it under load. A cooling base would have a huge impact as the thermal pads diffuse heat through the base, I'd expect another -10c from that. Hope this helps someone, this was quite a PITA. This machine is powerful and I can play some games (Civ IV) at 4k with maxed settings. That's interesting because these guys have the same GPU as yours and do not have GPU throttling hitting +80°C : / I think that bad thermal paste application isn't the only reason for this problem, if it was this guy would be throttling too when hitting +80C° right ? Could this be because of a different GPU BIOS ? Are you using April drivers or do you have the black screen issue ? I also have to limit my GPU to 42W and lower the graphics on AC Odissey to avoid the 1200MHz clock if I don't want my GPU temp to go crazy +86°C ... I'm not confortable opening my MBP to change thermal paste, but will find someone that knows how to do it properly ! Did you take a picture of the bad thermal paste application on your MBP ? Could be interesting sending it to Apple. Thank you for your help (I have the 5500M 8gb but as you can see on my "Macbook Pro 16" GPU temp rising at +85°, thermal paste?" post, the problems are the same) Yep I've seen this - it might be the case that these machines have extreme variation in terms of thermal quality control. My machine was far, far beyond what that guy posted. I'm not sure how he's managing sub 70c under load, that is extremely cool for a laptop in any scenario. I presume the room was cold, it makes a huge difference. I did not take a picture but I can describe it. Imagine a 4 year old was given a hammer and alphabet spaghetti, with the instruction to spell their name violently on the motherboard. Just a complete mess, thermal paste covering the capacitors and poorly applied. I've used multiple drivers and can honestly say it doesn't matter what you pick. They all have the same performance more or less for me. It's definitely the case that the system throttles past 80c. I could disable this if I looked into it. My belief is that the VRM is at fault for this behaviour. It's likely that power to the system itself is getting dialled back significantly. FWIW without my mod you can get the machine stable with MorePowerTool by setting the wattage to 42. This is 20%+ less performance though. |
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Post by pazzavlad on May 25, 2020 8:27:02 GMT
Thanks for the topic. It really sucks that apple makes things throttle after 80c, even more sucks that they can't provide decent thermal paste for ~3K USD laptop.
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Post by goldmaster11 on May 26, 2020 8:18:48 GMT
iFixit reported the thermal paste application on MacBook Pro (15-inch, 2019) and 16-inch MacBook Pro was better than in 2018 model.
However, it is may the case that it is by chance that they received a good unit with good thermal paste.
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Post by neimos on May 26, 2020 19:58:31 GMT
I've solved the thermal throttling issue with my MBP 2019 16" 5500m 4gb. The cause is that when the temperature of the GPU or CPU exceed 80c the VRM will kick in and reduce the power available to the system. The only way to prevent this is to ensure the system doesn't hit this temp. I replaced the stock thermal paste with Kyronaut's thermal compound. This reduced temps by close to 10c under load. I didn't opt for liquid metal as I don't want to run the risk of damaging the machine and the difference is pretty small. After that I added thermal pads so the heatsink is in contact with the bottom casing. This diffuses a lot of heat, but don't game with the thing on your lap. I use Throttlestop and set the multiplier to 30. This caps the boost to 3 GHZ. This is essential as it will ramp up to 4.1ghz on a whim and the temps get insane, near 100c. You don't need to change anything else, and you could probably get close to 3.5 GHZ without throttling. With this configuration the GPU never throttles and maintains 1200-1450 mhz throughout, could probably overclock it to 1600 if desired with MorePowerTool if you dial back the CPU clock. Temperatures with 8 cores at 3 GHZ hover around 75c, but this is dependent on room temperature. I also prop the laptop up to allow heat to diffuse from the thermal pads, this makes a huge difference in temps. Without these modifications this laptop will always throttle. I had to run the GPU at -20% capacity (42w) and disable turbo on the CPU entirely (2.3 ghz). Overall these mods result in +25%-+50% performance under load as the VRM goes overboard in throttling. Under normal use the fans never turn on too as the thermal improvement is significant with the paste alone. I also set the fans to 100% as you'll need it under load. A cooling base would have a huge impact as the thermal pads diffuse heat through the base, I'd expect another -10c from that. Hope this helps someone, this was quite a PITA. This machine is powerful and I can play some games (Civ IV) at 4k with maxed settings. I am glad that you have sorted yours. I am trying hardest to fix mine without the hardware approach, which I doubt I will find. But I can also acknowledge it is 100% GPU related and above certain threshold temperature BD Prochot is being triggered. I can recommend rather than Throttlestop, you can use OPENCPU. That prgram lets you have a full control of your CPU as in the advanced settings, in speed shift there is energy boost option (which is normally it is in the middle). This makes your CPU freq jumping up and down. When you turn it, to max performance I see a nice stable average frequency of 3GHz even if my GPU throttles until VRAM kicks in and sends a BD PROCHOT signal. One question, I have already posted in my post, can you read your VRAM temperatures either in afterburner or in hwinfo64? Mine is showing 0 degrees hence I am assuming I have faulty sensors  |
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Post by pazzavlad on May 27, 2020 10:46:46 GMT
This makes your CPU freq jumping up and down. When you turn it, to max performance I see a nice stable average frequency of 3GHz even if my GPU throttles until VRAM kicks in and sends a BD PROCHOT signal. I'm not 100% sure about this, but I believe VRAM or dedicated GPU can't send PROCHOT signal to the CPU. Only CPU (and integrated GPU) can. P.S. My 5300M also shows VRAM temperature as 0. Seems like it doesn't have such sensor or it can't read it... |
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Post by neimos on May 27, 2020 13:06:58 GMT
I'm not 100% sure about this, but I believe VRAM or dedicated GPU can't send PROCHOT signal to the CPU. Only CPU (and integrated GPU) can. P.S. My 5300M also shows VRAM temperature as 0. Seems like it doesn't have such sensor or it can't read it... Hmm ok, so probably no one has a sensor on VRAM then. I do not know the structure of BD-PROCHOT but if you can look at my graph down below - I labelled when BD-PROCHOT kills CPU and downs it to 800MHz from 3GHz, while the temperatures (CPU/GPU) have been below 70C for at least 5-6 mins & there has been a GPU throttle.  So there should be another component sending it as GPU has already throttled and cooled down. But I am not 100% sure - googled and found this: Two common possibilities are the CPU Voltage Regulator and the GPU. Another possibility is the main PSU. Page is at: www.quora.com/What-is-BD-PROCHOT-that-causes-the-CPU-to-throttle-What-can-I-do-to-permanently-disable-it |
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Post by pazzavlad on May 27, 2020 14:10:18 GMT
What is your ambient temperature? I notice my macbook is throttles less when wether was cold. I have similar GPU graph as yours but mine is keep about 900 mhz GPU clock. Also did you try reset SMC and PRAM? support.apple.com/en-us/HT201295 I also thought it can be PSU or some other component with passive cooling is overheating, but if this was the problem, frequencies won't recover after 1 second of alt+tab. |
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Post by neimos on May 27, 2020 15:15:25 GMT
What is your ambient temperature? I notice my macbook is throttles less when wether was cold. I have similar GPU graph as yours but mine is keep about 900 mhz GPU clock. Also did you try reset SMC and PRAM? support.apple.com/en-us/HT201295 I also thought it can be PSU or some other component with passive cooling is overheating, but if this was the problem, frequencies won't recover after 1 second of alt+tab. Yes ambient temperature is critical. During winter I have never observed this and the house was around 20-21 degrees. Right now it is 24-25 degrees and that's the main reason. I am almost quite positive that thermal paste would also fix it. I have done SMC and PRAM resets a lot but not quite sure if those were the main reasons. Yeah you are right alt+tab should not fix it normally but within the game it fixes itself also. So I am clueless and maybe the computer might be on the borderline and I am just speculating |
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Post by pazzavlad on May 27, 2020 15:52:13 GMT
https://www.reddit.com/r/macbookpro/comments/bjeu6e/cpu_throttling_not_fixed_on_macbook_pro_2018_15/- problem was exist long time ago... and seems like they "new better thermal design" in MB16 just another marketing fluff, that doesn't soles anything. I'm currently have about 20 degrees, run Forza Horizon 4 and GPU throttles down to 500-600 mhz. Temperatures are about 70* on GPU\CPU. When it was colder it "only" throttles to 900 mhz.
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Post by goldmaster11 on May 27, 2020 20:31:19 GMT
Only macOS benefits from the better cooling system in conjunction with an undervolt. Any intense work in macOS on a 16" has higher clocks speedw compared to a similae 15". Windows always leaves the processor at the default voltage, making the processor run hotter than it's supposed to.
The 16" MBP's vents are actually slightly larger if you look closely.
The thermal throttling issue initially occured on 2018 MBP 15" and was resolved with a High Sierra update. However, this did not apply to Windows, and it has carried on to 2019 15" and 16". Going from 4 to 8 cores in a couple years in the high-end configurations, that means twice the heat is now being produced from the cores.
I also observed no significant amounts of thermal throttling in the winter, when my MBP was brand new. It would run at 4GHz on one core and heavy GPU usage all the time at 70C.
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Post by pazzavlad on May 28, 2020 8:12:15 GMT
I had similar problem with base 2016 model, where was 4 cores. In summer it throttled like a hell.
Also if it throttle because of reaching critical CPU or GPU temperature, I will not have any complains, it will be understandable for me) For example if GPU would reach 95 degree, throttles a bit then fall to 90, cool down, recover, up 95* throttles and again and again. This is normal behaviour.
But we mostly seen that both CPU and GPU throttles when some of them reaches 80* (or GPU reaches 99% load in some other topics) and cannot recover even when temps are below 70*. It's absurd behaviour.
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Post by neimos on May 28, 2020 10:08:33 GMT
I had the 15inch 2017 top spec model. I had to return it due to the butterfly mechanism and I got the 16inch because I love how they are dealing with their customers. But right now, I am thinking of whether or not I messed up .... In Summer both of them throttles 100%. But I have to say the throttling was way less on my 2017 15inch and I could play games with a worst card. I hope this will be fixed either by us or Apple at some point. |
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