Simon
Junior Boot Camper
Posts: 11
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Post by Simon on Jun 29, 2021 0:58:27 GMT
I realise it might be too late to warn people against installing this, but I wanted to share my experience with it and why I strongly suggest Boot Camp users not install this update. The Boot Camp 6.1.15 update adds support for Microsoft's "Precision Touchpad", which (as you'll see) is not that great, at least in so far as Apple implemented it; as well as 3 and 4-fingure gestures like in macOS. I'm using a 16" MacBook Pro. The first major annoyance was a very noticible lag/delay when using tap-to-click. I prefer tap-to-clip, so the delay (which is near, but not completely, universal throughout the OS) was extremely frustrating. Selecting the Start menu and launching programs, among many other things, suddenly became noticeably laggy. Some online searching* reveals that it's "by design" and is a 300 ms delay (nearly one-third of a second), which is very long. I absolutely hate it. You can read about the tap delay by searching online. In one such forum, even a Windows user remarked that Apple's implementation of the trackpad driver in Boot Camp (prior to this update), though more limited, was better because it forgoes the delay. The second major downgrade was two-finger scrolling behaviour. This became far too slow throughout the OS and in many applications, while at the same time extremely finicky and almost unusable in gaming. It completely screwed up scrolling in the game I was playing to the point that I couldn't even play it anymore. Apple's previous driver worked just fine. Given that most Boot Camp users use Windows for gaming, this is especially significant for many MacBook owners. There's also no (easy) way to customise scrolling speed in Windows as far as I'm aware, not that the acceleration or other issues are addressed by that. The problems were so significant and frustrating that I had no choice but to completely reinstall Windows and go back to Apple's previous driver. There was no easy way to roll-back to the previous driver. I didn't have any Windows snapshots. I then updated Windows and Boot Camp just prior to the 6.1.15 update, and am happy to get my responsive tap and reliable scrolling behaviour back. The 6.1.15 "Precision" driver will forever go uninstalled. This experience made me think that perhaps there was a reason why Apple avoided Microsoft Precision Touchpad in the first place, and for so long. It also makes me wonder why, after so many years, they finally decided to add it now (too many requests?), especially because they're transitioning to ARM-based SOCs that (for now) won't support Windows. I'm a cynic at the best of times, but even I wouldn't suggest they intended to degrade the experience in Windows under the guise of a feature update. Apple has been known to do this by adding extremely subtle delays to older iOS hardware in the past. I'm happy now, but just wanted to warn others. Windows on MacBooks has always been surprisingly good, to the point that some remark "it's the best Windows experience you can get". That is of course not entirely true, but it's not far off, espeically because of the complete lack of bloatware other than that which Microsoft themselves tries to add and which I promptly remove after every installation. I hope this helps others avoid the same frustration I had. * answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-hardware/how-to-remove-the-delay-on-trackpad-tab-in-windows/220656a0-6df1-4640-bd61-38ad617321ba |
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Post by сhad2 on Jul 10, 2021 20:10:21 GMT
Thanks for this valuable information, Simon. However how did you get 6.1.15 drivers back? Brigadier 0.2.4 downloads Boot Camp Support Software 6.1.8034 as a latest release for MacBookPro16,4 (all 16-inchers). It contains AppleMultiTouchTrackPad driver 6.1.7800.0 and AppleMultiTouchTrackPadPro 6.1.7800.2. Could you clarify what is the right TrackPad driver version that doesn't have delay issue and what is the updated (problematic) driver version? |
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Simon
Junior Boot Camper
Posts: 11
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Post by Simon on Jul 12, 2021 7:55:59 GMT
Could you clarify what is the right TrackPad driver version that doesn't have delay issue and what is the updated (problematic) driver version? Hi Chad, The updated (downgraded) Precision Touchpad driver is installed by the Apple Software Update application in Windows. This is usually set to check for updates by default, so it'll probably have launched itself when it detects an update. If you’ve got Windows 10 installed (and probably even early versions) and the Apple Software Update application doesn't show any available updates, then you've probably already installed the update. See the attached image for what it looks like within Apple Software Update (sorry about the poor quality as I photographed my screen). ![]() If it's already installed, do you not notice any tap-to-clip delay? It is very obvious to me. If it's already installed, then like me the only (or easiest) way to go back is to reinstall Windows on your Mac. I know, this is not easy, but there was no other way I was aware of. To reinstall Windows, if it's installed via the Boot Camp Assistant as a partition on your Mac, is to firstly back up everything (of course). Then in macOS completely remove the Windows partition. Then use the Boot Camp Assistant application to recreate a Windows partition. Point it towards a Windows 10 ISO file (download the latest from Windows) then let the Boot Camp Assistant download drivers as part of the installation process. The drivers it downloads never include the latest Boot Camp software updates. So for now (at least) you'll be able to follow this procedure to go back to the previous driver. Of course, when the 6.1.15 driver eventually pops up, do not install it. I think there's a Boot Camp update or two before that before it shows up. Reinstalling Windows on your Mac is not something you tend to do unless it's absolutely necessary, in part because updating Windows itself is so god-damned slow! Despite this, it was absolutely necessary for me to do so. Attachments:
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Simon
Junior Boot Camper
Posts: 11
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Post by Simon on Jul 12, 2021 8:39:06 GMT
Hi again,
Further on your reply it appears you're using non-Apple or custom trackpad drivers so you probably aren't affected by this. I know there was a guy who made custom trackpad drivers for Boot Camp, in part because he wanted to add extra functionality along the lines of Microsoft Precision Touchpad that Apple (at that stage) hadn't implemented. If so, you're probably unaffected by this recent update, but I can't be sure.
I'm not familiar with that software you're using to install Windows, so I can't really offer much more, sorry.
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Post by сhad2 on Jul 16, 2021 1:30:51 GMT
Hey Simon, thanks for response! Brigadier 0.2.4 is open source utility to download Boot Camp Support Software from Apple server using Windows. You can get it at GitHub. You only need to know your Mac's identifier ( MacBookPro16,4 for all current 16-inchers 2019-2020) and use it as an argument from Command Line like this (Shift-RMB folder with brigadier.exe and use "Open Command Prompt here" option): brigadier -m MacBookPro16,4Or you can download currently latest BCSS package Boot Camp Support Software 6.1.8034 via swcdn.apple.com/content/downloads/08/36/041-96204/w1q0ukl3x12fbeee41ex7lgjt82h7zrdn4/BootCampESD.pkg and unpack it using 7-Zip (free Russian app). This way you won't need to reinstall Windows 10 every time something goes. I personally prefer not to use any Apple software (like Apple Software Update) unless I ultimately need it: it's poorly made. You can fetch Boot Camp Support Software 6.1.15 (or any other BC/iTunes or other Apple bloatware update) direct EXE URL from Apple's server via swcatalog.apple.com/content/catalogs/others/index-windows-1.sucatalog: it's XML file, use Chrome to open it and look for "AppleBcUpdate.exe" with most recent dates, and before you download EXE use SMD's header to check what you're about to download. In example, for BC 6.1.15 update use this link to see update version and this link to download BC 6.1.15 EXE directly from Apple. Then use Russian 7-Zip to extract EXE and update driver manually (I mean you shouldn't if you aren't after that delay again). |
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Simon
Junior Boot Camper
Posts: 11
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Post by Simon on Jul 20, 2021 8:48:44 GMT
Hi Chad. I looked up that Brigadier software/script and it appears to just download the driver packages directly from Apple from within Windows. In other words, it seems to replicate the "Download Windows Support Software" function from the Boot Camp Assistant application within macOS, sans the Apple Software Update utility I guess. I've no idea if it continues to monitor or check for updates as they're released. As mentioned, the full package that Boot Camp Assistant (and, presumably, Brigadier) downloads/installs never seems to contain the latest version of Boot Camp and its individual drivers. There's always an update or two after Windows and the Boot Camp support software (drivers) installs. I suppose Brigadier is helpful if you don't have a copy of macOS on your laptop (I know some people who use their Macs for Windows only, so it's not out of the question) or in select other circumstances. If you do have macOS however, I really can't see the point of going that route. The Apple Software Update utility is very innocuous as far as Windows software is concerned. It's a 3.87 MB utility, so it's hardly bloatware either. There's also a (coincidentally) 3.87 MB Boot Camp Manager application which runs in the background, but it uses very few resources (I've never seen it do anything and it uses 0.5 MB of RAM) and is probably just used to tell Apple Software Update utility when software updates are available and to launch it. I suppose for the paranoid there's a chance Apple might use it to check how many people are (regularly) using Windows and how much, but this is nothing unusual and is standard practice for Apple and Microsoft to do in their own operating systems. It's not like they can't get this information from the number of downloads of the support package and updates. This utility, too, can be deleted or disabled via Task Manager if one is really super tight and worried. It's hardly trying to obfuscate itself like bloat or spyware typically does. Microsoft tries to install far more bloatware as part of its standard Windows installation. Perhaps it's more obvious how to manage driver versions with Brigadier, but you yourself say you're not sure if you have this latest update and if Brigadier is only using drivers from Apple's servers, then it surely can't allow an easy downgrade once they're removed. You can turn off checking for updates, let alone installing them; something that Windows itself doesn't allow. It's not like Apple even offers iTunes or QuickTime for Windows anymore. You can also, probably, delete the Apple Software Update utility after installing Windows if you really want, though I can't understand why you'd want to do this either. It would be very annoying to get it back and may even require a full reinstall. The utility gives you the option to review and accept any updates before installing them, and even to hide updates that you don't like, such as the (dreaded) 6.1.15 Precision Touchpad update. I'm sure it's fine, but I'd personally trust a third-party script less than Apple's own tool to do these things. I'm sure it's open-source, but still. I reckon there's a pretty good chance you don't have the latest Apple touchpad driver, but there's a really easy way to check. If you go to the Windows Settings application, then Devices, then Touchpad, if you have the option to configure 3 and 4-finger gestures then you either have the latest Boot Camp update or (potentially) you installed that third-party driver I mentioned. If you can't configure multi-touch gestures then you certainly don't have it. Like I said, the tap delay is *very* obvious. I don't know enough about that Brigadier tool to know if it checks for updates or not and at what frequency. If you haven't installed updates with it in the past month then you won't have it. I also don't know if the script tells you the Boot Camp software version that it's installing either. So really, I think the Brigadier tool is only useful as a last resort. If you're really that suspicious of Apple then it makes me wonder why you're using a Mac laptop in the first place. I run a very tight version of Windows as well, so I appreciate your concerns (I even go so far as to install Education N and remove all Windows components/add-ons/software I don't need), but really Apple Software Update is the least of my concerns.  PS: It seems the Bootcamp.exe application needs to launch at boot in Windows for me to get tap-to-click functionality, so it probably has a role to play in enabling some of the drivers somehow. After Windows has loaded, I can quit it with no ill effect. PPS: The Bootcamp.exe application is also the System Tray, which I use regularly for switching the boot drive back to macOS. |
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Post by сhad2 on Sept 6, 2022 21:20:21 GMT
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